The thing I don’t like about the mansplaining accusation is it makes lots of men out to be sexist/misogynistic when they are really just pedantic twits that very well could have commented the same stupid thing to a man. But because it was to a woman someone has to accuse them of being sexist too.
Don’t get me wrong there are a lot of sexist assholes, but just assuming it to be the case off a single comment irks me.
I think the problem a lot of people here are having is that they’re assuming the accusation is active sexism. Like it’s a cognitive decision to go “phht, what would she know, she’s a woman”.
I suspect the vast majority of mansplaning scenarios are subconscious. They probably don’t even know that’s what they’re doing abs would never see themselves as being sexist. I think that’s because everyone sees the word “sexist” and associates it with clichéd extreme sexism, like cat calling, not wanting a Female pilot, ignoring their ideas in meetings etc.
The thing about subtle unconscious bias is that you’re almost never aware you’re doing it, but it still has similar effects on the affected group.
The healthy thing to do is to listen to the person it’s affecting, analyse the scenario, and reflect on if it’s something that you, or people you know, might have been doing without realising.
Counterpoint - explaining things the other party knows is how you get on the same page.
I don’t give a shit about your degree or your gender, it tells me nothing about where you’re at. Most people are fucking idiots who have no idea how anything works, and that includes doctors and probably astronauts
And I say this as someone constantly underestimated. Yeah, it’s annoying to hear things you already know at a basic level. I ask people if they know about things and take them at their word
But this is just normal communication. I don’t know what you know, you don’t know what I know. I probably understand how your mind and body work better than you do, because most people don’t know how their mind and body work beyond a 4th grade level
Explaining things the other person knows is undesirable. It’s also how most people reach the starting line for a dialogue
The big issue is that we don’t see men being pedantic towards other men at nearly the same rate. Absolutely it happens, but there is definitely a problem with men not respecting women specifically.
Part of it, I think, comes from social conditioning and it’s more of a reaction than anything on purpose when it comes to a large subset of the people doing it. Even still, it’s important to gender it at least sometimes to highlight why we might be doing it and to give us the correct thing to reflect on. I’ve done it before where I could say it to a man but I realized that I what I was saying or doing was fueled, at least in part, by some internalized misogyny. Knowing that has helped me get to it before I do something stupid.
Okay, but do you not realize how big a problem being discharitable to others is?
The fucking fabric of society is falling apart. I’m sorry women get underestimated, like I do. It’s very annoying, believe me, I deal with it constantly
But you suck it up, listen, and make them feel foolish with your response.
The alternative is a further breakdown of communication. You can’t be primed to see others as bad actors, it’s so incredibly damaging
No one is the villain in their own story. No one knows how smart they are, only if others are higher or lower.
Listening to people tell you things you already know is inevitable. It’s social hygiene. It sucks, but it’s the social contract
That’s a lot of words to say you don’t understand the difference. Not knowing something is fine, but fighting it like this is weird. You’re not helping anything with this comment and instead are basically trying to say that it’s not a problem enough to even talk about or understand. If you cannot handle this information that’s something to look inwardly at, not lash out at me for simply explaining what it is.
Women feel talked down because they are women and they can see the exact same men treating other men differently. I regularly see this happen to them, too. Sometimes it’s a small accident and sometimes it’s very much on purpose and all of it is important to understand. I don’t know why you want to pretend like it doesn’t happen but it does either way.
But the cure is worse than the poison. The term primes people to see it where it isn’t there, and that’s extraordinarily toxic.
Call them a misogynist and be done with it. I know it when I see it. You know it when you see it.
It’s like man spreading. It’s ok to be comfortable. It’s not ok to push into other people’s personal space. If you’re alone on a bench, who gives a fuck. If you want to signal “I’d prefer no one sit next to me”, that’s fine until someone sits next to you. Then you’re an asshole or you’re not, we don’t need extra words to gender niche behaviors
Words are perception. Labeling a thing primes you to see it. These overly specific, gender based labels are harmful
It literally makes the world worse for everyone involved to create subcategories of asshole behavior based on gender dynamics
The cure is not worse than the poison. And if you admit that it happens, and you also say we should call them misogynist if they’re doing it, then calling someone out for “mansplaining” is exactly that except for some reason you don’t like it.
It’s giving “I’m fine with the protests I just don’t think they should block traffic or otherwise get in my way.”
The thing I don’t like about the mansplaining accusation is it makes lots of men out to be sexist/misogynistic when they are really just pedantic twits that very well could have commented the same stupid thing to a man. But because it was to a woman someone has to accuse them of being sexist too.
Don’t get me wrong there are a lot of sexist assholes, but just assuming it to be the case off a single comment irks me.
I think the problem a lot of people here are having is that they’re assuming the accusation is active sexism. Like it’s a cognitive decision to go “phht, what would she know, she’s a woman”.
I suspect the vast majority of mansplaning scenarios are subconscious. They probably don’t even know that’s what they’re doing abs would never see themselves as being sexist. I think that’s because everyone sees the word “sexist” and associates it with clichéd extreme sexism, like cat calling, not wanting a Female pilot, ignoring their ideas in meetings etc.
The thing about subtle unconscious bias is that you’re almost never aware you’re doing it, but it still has similar effects on the affected group.
The healthy thing to do is to listen to the person it’s affecting, analyse the scenario, and reflect on if it’s something that you, or people you know, might have been doing without realising.
Counterpoint - explaining things the other party knows is how you get on the same page.
I don’t give a shit about your degree or your gender, it tells me nothing about where you’re at. Most people are fucking idiots who have no idea how anything works, and that includes doctors and probably astronauts
And I say this as someone constantly underestimated. Yeah, it’s annoying to hear things you already know at a basic level. I ask people if they know about things and take them at their word
But this is just normal communication. I don’t know what you know, you don’t know what I know. I probably understand how your mind and body work better than you do, because most people don’t know how their mind and body work beyond a 4th grade level
Explaining things the other person knows is undesirable. It’s also how most people reach the starting line for a dialogue
(New person here)
The big issue is that we don’t see men being pedantic towards other men at nearly the same rate. Absolutely it happens, but there is definitely a problem with men not respecting women specifically.
Part of it, I think, comes from social conditioning and it’s more of a reaction than anything on purpose when it comes to a large subset of the people doing it. Even still, it’s important to gender it at least sometimes to highlight why we might be doing it and to give us the correct thing to reflect on. I’ve done it before where I could say it to a man but I realized that I what I was saying or doing was fueled, at least in part, by some internalized misogyny. Knowing that has helped me get to it before I do something stupid.
Okay, but do you not realize how big a problem being discharitable to others is?
The fucking fabric of society is falling apart. I’m sorry women get underestimated, like I do. It’s very annoying, believe me, I deal with it constantly
But you suck it up, listen, and make them feel foolish with your response.
The alternative is a further breakdown of communication. You can’t be primed to see others as bad actors, it’s so incredibly damaging
No one is the villain in their own story. No one knows how smart they are, only if others are higher or lower.
Listening to people tell you things you already know is inevitable. It’s social hygiene. It sucks, but it’s the social contract
That’s a lot of words to say you don’t understand the difference. Not knowing something is fine, but fighting it like this is weird. You’re not helping anything with this comment and instead are basically trying to say that it’s not a problem enough to even talk about or understand. If you cannot handle this information that’s something to look inwardly at, not lash out at me for simply explaining what it is.
Women feel talked down because they are women and they can see the exact same men treating other men differently. I regularly see this happen to them, too. Sometimes it’s a small accident and sometimes it’s very much on purpose and all of it is important to understand. I don’t know why you want to pretend like it doesn’t happen but it does either way.
It happens, I’m not denying that.
But the cure is worse than the poison. The term primes people to see it where it isn’t there, and that’s extraordinarily toxic.
Call them a misogynist and be done with it. I know it when I see it. You know it when you see it.
It’s like man spreading. It’s ok to be comfortable. It’s not ok to push into other people’s personal space. If you’re alone on a bench, who gives a fuck. If you want to signal “I’d prefer no one sit next to me”, that’s fine until someone sits next to you. Then you’re an asshole or you’re not, we don’t need extra words to gender niche behaviors
Words are perception. Labeling a thing primes you to see it. These overly specific, gender based labels are harmful
It literally makes the world worse for everyone involved to create subcategories of asshole behavior based on gender dynamics
The cure is not worse than the poison. And if you admit that it happens, and you also say we should call them misogynist if they’re doing it, then calling someone out for “mansplaining” is exactly that except for some reason you don’t like it.
It’s giving “I’m fine with the protests I just don’t think they should block traffic or otherwise get in my way.”