I know they’re all bad for privacy to an extent, which is why I specified “least bad.”
This is for casual use, as someone concerned about surveillance capitalism, digital privacy, social cooling and the like. I do not have a high threat model. I am looking to balance privacy and convenience. I am not going to teach my grandma how to use monero, and it isn’t always a reasonable option to use cash or mail a check.
The big services in the US I know of are:
- PayPal: shares your data with 600+ companies
- Venmo: owned by PayPal
- Apple Cash: Requires an Apple device, not an option for many
- Google Pay: it’s Google, and it doesn’t work on custom ROMs like GrapheneOS
- Facebook Messenger: apparently you can send money on there, but I think “there’s zero chance I’m making a Facebook account and I’m especially not linking my bank to it” needs no explanation in this community
- Cash App: owned by Square, might be a decent option?
- Zelle: Not supported by all banks (I don’t think it’s supported by mine and I definitely have friends that use unsupported banks)
If anyone knows of better options, or tips to minimize shared data while using any of the above options, please elaborate.
Huh, I thought Zelle was ubiquitous.
I gave up this fight a few years back
- if you want privacy, use cash
- prepare to use multiple services because some people are stuck on one and it’s never the same one
- if you give in for the convenience, which one is as much up to whom you need to pay as it is to you
I used Venmo to pay my kids driving instructor, Zelle to pay a house cleaner, and Apple Cash to send my kids money at school
The cash app privacy policy seems pretty boilerplate, but ianal.
https://cash.app/legal/us/en-us/privacy
I try to use cash or check more these days, but as you noted it isn’t always practical or safe. Paying in cash and saying “no thanks” when they ask for your phone number tends to get me a weird look, but makes me happy.
Monero? I know crypto is overhyped and typically seen as “bad” but its entire purpose was to operate outside the banking systems of the world.
Don’t know how banking works in the US, but is a normal bank transfer not an option?
I had the same thought. Nice and simple just bank transfer it over… but nope not in the US apparently :/
Not from the US but I got the same question a few years ago, so I did the research and learned that US banking system is pretty fucking insane, so the short answer is: no, normal bank transfer is not an option.
Bruh in Canada Interact e-transfer is free and supported by over 80 banks. Don’t even need their bank#, you can send it to an email or a phone.
America is so barbaric.
Same in NZ and Aus. Need to send someone money? Just send it instantly using your bank’s app or online banking. All you need is their account number. Doesn’t matter what bank they use.
The Federal Reserve, which manages interbank money transfers in the US, last year approved a service that creates near instant transfers for pennies.
We have three official ways: wires (same day; acceptable for lawful purposes ie real estate; costly at $20+ each), ACH (takes days; fractions of a penny; used for bulk transfers that are planned in advance or are not time sensitive ie checks and payroll; what venmo etc actually do in the background, behind the facade of their app), and now FedNow.
FedNow is more like bank transfers used in other countries where silly stuff like venmo isn’t needed. Problem is every bank needs to spend the time and expense to implement it. That is going to take ages, and with venmo-like services being well established there isn’t a lot of demand driving adoption. And probably why anyone reading this never heard about it.
Or maybe a good old classic bank transfer, without the “e”? These are supported everywhere and days you can do them on a smartphone, all you need is your banking app and your friend’s account number. And information should stay between the (at most) two companies involved and maybe the tax office.
And takes at least a bankday
Sure. That’s the ridiculous thing about them. I bet they’re handled within a split second on some computer system. But somehow the bank has to mess with us and waits until monday afternoon to process the transfer I did friday evening. Though some banks are better than others. And the only reason I can come up with is, they like to steer customers away from their own services and towards PayPal…
Doesn’t somebody actually approve the transaction?
I actually don’t know, I’ve never worked at a bank. But it’d be a massive surprise to me if they were. All companies have to save money and no one has money to hire hundreds of people to click the same button all day. And computers aren’t just cheaper, they also don’t make mistakes with math and they can run additional code to cross-reference things, detect anomalies and fraud and so on. While it’s almost impossible for a human to judge whether me transferring $2600 to a random account number is legitimate or not…
What is interesting is that not all transfers are approved at 6:00 in the morning. Some of them take more hours until it’s done. Wondering why. Maybe some are automatic and the ones flagged require manual intervention?
I am not going to teach my grandma how to use monero, and it isn’t always a reasonable option to use cash or mail a check.
If they and you both have a bank account, you can use ACH. Their bank knows about the transfer and your bank knows about the transfer.
https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/banking/ach-transfers
I don’t know if that’s acceptable to you from a privacy standpoint. It’s obviously going to be less-private than cash — though some information does leak via serial number scanning at ATMs with cash — but if cash won’t work for your particular use case…shrugs
Doesn’t bank account information have to be exchanged for an ACH transfer? Seems good between people you really trust (although definitely less convenient), but I’m not sure I’d be comfortable exchanging bank info with an acquaintance.
Western Union?
Thanks for the suggestion. At first glance it does seem “less bad” than most of the other options, assuming it works on custom ROMs. I think the problem will be finding others that also use it, since it doesn’t seem as popular as the other options.
Hol’up, your granny can’t be bothered to use crypto but she runs a custom ROM and somehow the financial app that will for sure use Google Play Integrity checks is supposed to work on that? And compared to that sending cash and precious metals is too cumbersome?
You and your grandma certainly have some interesting threat vectors defined for yourselves.
Western Union == wire transfer. It’s probably the most-expensive electronic transfer option you can find, but it’ll be faster than the slower ACH that I mention in another comment. It probably wouldn’t be my first pick unless I required the speed.
https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/banking/wire-transfers-what-banks-charge
Sending wire transfers can be an expensive way to move money from one bank account to another, with typical outgoing fees of $25 per transfer within the United States. But if you’re sending a lot of money or need a transfer to happen quickly, it may be a good option.
To quote the warrior poet Randy Moss “Straight Cash, Homey”
I know it’s crazy but can I introduce you to the humble check?
I think you missed the part of my post where I said “it isn’t always a reasonable option to use cash or mail a check.”
My bad must have missed that.
See if their bank does mobile deposit, you might be able to just send a check image.
