• Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works
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    29 days ago

    developing or occurring without apparent external influence, force, cause, or treatment

    Pretty much the definition of spontaneous if you ask me.

    • Evil_Shrubbery@thelemmy.club
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      28 days ago

      Yes, afaik in science community that is in fact the correct use of the word, meaning from “environmental” conditions (well, it’s test conditions for the environment in this case) and not from an active, localised influence.

      • Dasus@lemmy.world
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        28 days ago

        I mean, if you put some stuff in a room, then slowly start to heat the room up, would you describe the things — which will at one point or another catch fire —as “spontaneously” combusting?

        I’m not arguing the use is wrong here, just a thought I had.

        • SparroHawc@lemmy.zip
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          28 days ago

          Yes, actually. The autoignition point is the temperature at which a given material will spontaneously (as in, without a spark or the like) catch fire, given a source of oxygen.

    • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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      29 days ago

      Eh, it definitely has a cause. A known one. The fact water will boil isn’t spontaneous. “Spontaneous” still works for the sole reason which specific molecules is nigh impossible to predict.

      So, who is correct depends entirely on the mental framing of what someone thinks of when they read “water”. Water as an abstract idea of a specific type of fluid? Not spontaneous. Water as in what will literally happen to the bottle of water in the picture? Spontaneous.

      This post isn’t showcasing mansplaining. It’s showcasing pedantry. Nearly valid pedantry at that.

      • porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml
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        28 days ago

        Wrong, wrong, wrong.

        Eh, it definitely has a cause. A known one.

        Nothing to do with the physical definition of spontaneity. Spontaneity of a process just means that the ∆G is negative or total energy of the system is lower after the process, and additional energy isn’t required for the process to be thermodynamically allowed. This is, and I can’t stress this enough, the simplest of simple thermo.

        for the sole reason which specific molecules is nigh impossible to predict

        Also unrelated, but it is fully impossible to predict, since in trying to predict it well enough you reach quantum scales where everything is probabilistic. That doesn’t at all mean everything is spontaneous.

        So, who is correct depends entirely on the mental framing of what someone thinks of when they read “water”.

        Nope, the first person is strictly correct and the second is strictly incorrect, as described above.

        Water as an abstract idea of a specific type of fluid? Not spontaneous.

        Nope, exactly spontaneous. You could even forget about water entirely and model this just as a bunch of nuclei and electrons in a box and derive that the lowest energy state has them being in a gas of atoms, and the initial state doesn’t, which is enough to demonstrate by our earlier statements that boiling is spontaneous.

        Water as in what will literally happen to the bottle of water in the picture?

        This is “not even wrong” territory.

        This post isn’t showcasing mansplaining.

        It absolutely is. We will define mansplaining here as the confidently incorrect dismissal of statements of women by men where we suspect that the genders of the participants may play a role.

        The first part has been demonstrated above. It is also reasonable to assume the second given that we observe this happening to women at a far greater frequency than to men. Although, like with atoms, we cannot prove that this individual instance is a direct result, it is consistent with the probabilistic data and we would need additional evidence to conclude that this particular guy just goes around wrongly correcting everyone equally.

        Nearly valid pedantry at that.

        Once again, not remotely.

        • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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          28 days ago

          Nah you just don’t understand language or pedantry.

          I said it takes an autistic reading to come to the non-standard conclusion. I’m also not agreeing with the pedantry, hence “almost valid”.

          I’m sorry you do not understand how autistic people misread things or jump to funky conclusions, but I am wholly correct and you just want to be an asshole.

          You’re probably one of those people that perpetuates the mistreatment of autistic people for shit like this. Pathetic of you.

        • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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          28 days ago

          Yes. Pedantry doesn’t make the guy more correct. He’s still being an ass. I’m not agreeing with him. So the fact you still don’t understand is a bit… sad for you. Do you treat autistic people like shit because they don’t operate on social norms and the most common understandings of statements? If you say, “no”, then I’d suggest you introspect a LOT more, because the answer is clearly yes.

          • BussyGyatt@feddit.org
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            28 days ago

            words have meanings. thats not what spontaneous means in this context. the definition of spontaneous in this context is independent of the nature of water. and i frankly don’t give a shit if you struggle with social norms. i care that the word has a meaning and you are abusing it.